The Affiliate Marketing Podcast – Better Collective with Marc Pedersen

Have you been enjoying season 4 of the Affiliate Marketing Podcast so far? We have already been joined by some incredible guests this season and we have so much more to come. This week, Lee-Ann was joined by Marc Pedersen, the CEO US at Better Collective, a leading, international sports betting media group.

Marc Pedersen has worked at Better Collective since 2007 and has been an integral figure in helping the company become one of the foremost affiliates in the betting industry – both in Europe and the US. Today, he is responsible for Better Collective's activities in the US, where the company has multiple offices and is present with leading brands in regulated states. To learn more visit Better Collective online at www.bettercollective.com. 

Listen to hear more about: 

• How Better Collective have built their presence in America
• The evolution of the American betting market and operator licenses
• How affiliates can engage with communities and the betting market

[04:05 ] Marc explains how the American betting market is much more immature than the European market.

[06:20] Lee-Ann and Marc discuss the education and engagement that Better Collective takes when working with bookmakers in the US.

[12:15] Learn about the importance of having an operating license and how easy it is to apply for one.

[16:30] Marc discusses how Better Collective engages with their communities and offers them the best betting experience.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Hi, and welcome to the affiliate insider podcast with me, Leanne Johnston. This is a podcast for digital and affiliate marketers in the gaming industry. Listen up as I explore the latest digital and affiliate marketing trends and give you the insider scoop on what's occurring in affiliate marketing. Join us as we explore affiliate strategies, host expert interviews with leading affiliate and tech entrepreneurs and discuss the latest affiliate and digital marketing trends. If you want to stay at the cutting edge of affiliate marketing, you're in the right place. Join me for this week's episode and let's get started

Speaker 2: 0:53

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Speaker 3: 1:53

Welcome to affiliate insiders affiliate marketing podcast. And today with me, I have Mark Peterson from better collective. He is the CEO of the U S market, and we're going to be talking about affiliate marketing in the U S today. Hi mark. Welcome onto the podcast. How you doing

Speaker 4: 2:09

Alan? Thank you so much. Great to be here.

Speaker 3: 2:11

Excellent. To have you on the show. Um, I wanted you to just quickly kick off and just tell people a little bit about, um, better collective what you do there, um, in the U S market, just so we can get a feel for the business before we hop into the questions. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:25

So a better collective is the world's leading sports betting affiliate and would be Marcel's as a, as a leading sports branding media as well. Um, we have been active in the U S eh, on casino since New Jersey basically started, uh, back in 2014. And then obviously the PASPA was origin in 2018. We, we really accelerated our approach, uh, and that's, that's mainly due to us being focused mainly on sports betting that where it will, it became interesting for us when, when PASPA was over tonight and 2000, we acquired, uh, both the rotor grinders network, which is obviously the[inaudible] and certain affiliate sites, including sports handles, leading sports betting regulatory information website, and never shortly followed by acquisition of Vegas, insider and Scott large legacy sites in the U S with more than 20 years of history behind them, almost 25 years of history behind them. Um, what, what I do is obviously running these assets, and recently we added another, uh, as a, to our portfolio, the actual network, uh, which, uh, which runs within our U S organization under the CEO Patrick King.

Speaker 3: 3:40

Amazing. So, mark, can you give us a sense of what's happening in the U S market right now, especially for gaming affiliates,

Speaker 5: 3:48

As, as a

Speaker 4: 3:48

Lot of things happening just within this year, you you've seen some of our legacy European competitors making acquisitions. And as I just mentioned, we acquired the accent network as well. So slowly, we're seeing this consultation that we've seen in Europe starting up, uh, the U S is, is a much more immature market. And there per se, not that many established affiliates in the U S that will come, eh, I, I definitely see a large potential for, for new entrance to get in and get a space in the market, in the future as well.

Speaker 3: 4:22

Do you think it's going to be localized? Um, because obviously each state is opening up by step-by-step and obviously a lot of the legacy of lids, as you said, um, I sort of coming into this marketplace, but do they really understand the localization of each state? And, and do you think that, you know, locally based affiliates are going to sort of come up the ranks? I think you're going to see a mix.

Speaker 4: 4:43

Uh, there will be people that will be, uh, approaching, uh, the wider us and several states, numerous states. And then there will be some who are taking basically starting point out of, out of the local state, where they would have some niche, knowledge about certain things that can give them a way into the market. So, so I think we're going to see him next.

Speaker 3: 5:03

Okay. So what's making this market so attractive for Bella collective to invest in right now, because it has been quite a flurry of activity that you guys have done over the past 18 to 24 months. So what, why do you think this market is so attractive for affiliates to invest their time and resources and revenue in? Well,

Speaker 4: 5:21

Th the sheer size of the market combined is obviously attractive. And, and if you look at our acquisitions, the vast majority of them have a multi-state approach that we have certain state specific sites as well, but a multi-state approach that will allow us to whenever a new state regulates, then, then we'll be in a really strong position there. So obviously we are buying into a market that is in its very early days. Basically you, we are at what, three years in, and, uh, in, in my point of view, we are just in the very beginning. And there's no doubt if you look at the market potential over the next 10, 15 years, it's it's by far going to be the biggest market in the world.

Speaker 3: 6:02

So it's still quite only doors. Any days people are getting the feet in there getting their feet wet. Um, obviously there's a lot of M and a that's happening as well. But talk to us a little bit about your ethos around the education engagement as transparency that better connective actually takes in terms of working with, uh, bookmakers in the U S

Speaker 4: 6:24

Sports betting up until 2018 is basically been prohibited, uh, aside from a few states where there were small loopholes, but since JFK wasn't the white house and that's, that's back to the early sixties. So, eh, the entire understanding of sports betting, what is sports betting is known to quite a few people, but they have no legacy history in terms of what is the modern day of sports betting. So it's not just going down to a bond placing wager. There are numerous opportunities, numerous, numerous loopholes. You need to be careful about when you're, when you're gambling online. And the educational part is obviously making people understand the various bedtimes, how does it pass it? What are the trusted books? Where can you safely engage and make sure that they know where the regulated books so they can, they can enter into, into the sports betting activities with, with the actual, uh, regulated books in the given states. And then of course, down to responsible gambling education rounds, where you need to be careful, we're looking into how we can, can integrate some tools from mind where AI a subsidiary of better collective into our website, where we can, we can basically test the players in terms of, uh, compulsive gambling, uh, patterns. So, so that part is one that we feel very strongly defined. We, we believe will be most important in the future. We've seen it in Europe where we were too slow, not us per se, but the market in general were too slow in terms of taking a responsible gambling approach. Uh, and we will do our utmost to make sure that that doesn't happen in the newest. So, so the educational part on responsible gambling is very important for us.

Speaker 3: 8:11

And, um, we have had mind rate on, on the podcast in a previous season, Sophia, if you're listening to this and you want to find out more about that tool, just, um, have a look on apple or Spotify for, um, the interview that we had with these guys, but it's incredibly important that, um, there's a use of kind of artificial intelligence that sits behind this to actually ensure that customers are treated, you know, responsibly and, um, educated around what good behaviors are when it comes to online gambling, because it is accessible. Um, you know, and, and also educating the operators that are getting into, um, you know, online gambling, because it very much is an offline market that has existed in the U S for the last 10, 15 years, while we've all been kind of doing this, um, successfully here in Europe and at different stages. So, you know, what are some of the challenges that affiliates and operators face, um, getting a foothold in the U S marketplace, you know, um, you know, localization, we've spoken about quite a lot, but in terms of just engaging the audience in a, in a step by step marketing strategy, what are some of the challenges that you guys have sort of experienced early on getting into this market, um, with such, you know, such eagerness? Uh, well,

Speaker 4: 9:23

I don't think there's been perceived challenges in terms of engaging the audience. Uh, I think we've, we've been, we've been quite successful with that. I think the challenge it's more arise from uncertainty around regulation, timings, Illinois, that takes two steps back, two steps forward, and five steps back in terms of regulation and from a user perspective, that becomes a mess. And obviously that's good for us in the sense that we are trying to educate the user has been in terms of creating a stable market. It's, it's a nightmare. So, so that, that has really been one of the key challenges is, is that, uh, let me call it a whimsical approach to legislation in Illinois to, to pick one, I'd take out one other, otherwise it's timing when the new states get on when they have a framework in place and making sure that they actually then go live and everything works is another challenge, but, but from a core business perspective, uh, I wouldn't say that we are facing it, anything that we haven't seen before,

Speaker 3: 10:23

But smaller. I financed my advisor challenging in terms of, um, you know, Brittany, you know, taking their business from a European standpoint into a new market. So other challenges of entering a new market very much does, um, fall around compliance and regulation. And that's an additional sort of resource that affiliates need to consider having in-house to manage all of this whimsical sort of changing around legislation. Um, but then also the kind of marketing automation piece that sits behind the website and actually making sure that your communications and your branding and your messaging is responsibly delivered, um, you know, to persons over the age of 18, et cetera, et cetera. So there's a lot of like legal and compliance things that I think are making this a very difficult market for smaller affiliates to enter and maybe for, you know, smaller operators to consider entering as well. Um, and then obviously there's the fees, you know, the, the kind of licensing regulation that happens to their bus stages and additional business cost. Um, so what are, you know, how do the players really differ from, uh, some of the insights that you've learned as a business expanding into this area, just for, for companies that might still be considering making that leap over, over the pond? What are some of the insights that you can share with us in terms of, you know, how players react, um, you know, on that step by state basis?

Speaker 5: 11:43

Uh, I w I

Speaker 4: 11:44

Want to touch upon a thing that you were saying before around the licensing and the bureaucracy, and then, um, um, I'm a huge fan of the licensing. I think we we've seen that in Europe, not having that can be creating basically a wild west where you're being able to say and communicate anything thankfully that, that is changing over Europe as well. Uh, largely that's down to a push from there, from the operators, but there's no real regulatory regime around that that can penalize the, the various affiliates. And I think it's important to have that in place. I think it's important that you apply for a license that you can lose if you are not compliant. And, um, I wouldn't say it's that bureaucratic, at least for, for the, the CPA licenses around, they are generally pretty easy to get. And obviously there are various fees that you need to pay for that, but they are obtainable when it gets into the revenue share part, it gets more tricky and, and, and more burdensome, uh, I would prefer there'll be more lightweight to be honest, that, that the general concept around having licensing Stephanie something I'm in favor of. Yeah,

Speaker 3: 12:53

Absolutely. But in terms of, um, you know, how players differ in terms of how we market here in Europe, what are some of the insights that you've picked up since being in that market for the last few years? Well,

Speaker 4: 13:08

We'll obviously you, you can work with different personas around, and there are definitely, definitely different kinds of players equally to what you see in Europe. The overall understanding from our side is that the player values are higher, but you cannot go out and say, okay, so NFL is king. It is king, but it doesn't mean that they're are not local interests in New Jersey that are vastly different than, than in Colorado. So obviously you, you do, you do need to, to adopt your approach to the various states, depending on the geos, you'll have NASCAR being more popular in certain states than others. So you can't do a one size fits all.

Speaker 3: 13:46

Okay. So it's maybe even a good idea for affiliates and operators to specialize in certain areas. Um, and then just target the communities that could be around those areas as a potential marketing differentiator. So what trends are you seeing with local operators going live? One of the questions I get asked is why should operate as invest in affiliate programs? Could you guys maybe shed some light on half of their partnerships can help with localized brand reach? Yeah,

Speaker 4: 14:13

I think what, what I, what I just said is actually quite crucial in terms of making the marketing efforts easier for the various various books, they will be able to, uh, through affiliates attract local audiences much better than on a, on a standardized effort when you're talking marketing. So, so that's, that's obviously one that then there's the entire trust factor and entire transparency in affiliate where they affiliates will provide advertising for, for the best, for the best books, for the best offers for the users. Right? So, so in order to, to have the best product offering for your book, you, you, you do need to work with affiliate and you do need to be competitive because ultimately that's going to be reflected in the offering from affiliates. And then if you don't compete well enough there and have the rights offering offerings and products, then, then the users ultimately will also go elsewhere. So I think the affiliates really reflects the performance of, of your, of your brand.

Speaker 3: 15:13

That also means that if any hits need to carry a bigger pot, because, you know, right now, you know, media channels are available, you know, there's a lot of really good sports, um, you know, media platforms that, that operators in the U S can use. But I think the differentiator with affiliates is that they, they can niche down further than what a generic media campaign can do. And I think this is where operators need to consider working with affiliates because they have areas of expertise that perhaps, you know, generic media platforms don't, um, and this is why I always get asked, you know, why should I spend money on an affiliate program when I can, you know, do paid advertising? Yes, you can, but it's going to cost you a lot more because of the differentiator between a CPN, a revenue share and a fixed fee paid media deal, and sometimes a hybrid of all three. Um, so I think, you know, affiliates play a much larger part in terms of engaging communities. And this is sometimes something that brands forget.

Speaker 5: 16:12

Yeah,

Speaker 4: 16:13

Yeah. If I can just chip in here and I absolutely agree with everything you just said. There's no doubt that from our perspective and what I was referring to before is, is on a more nice level. But, but from our perspective, what we deem ourselves to be very good at is not just sending players for Rio. We are good on that, but it's equally to, to engage our own community, to engage our own database, make sure that they are constantly getting the right offerings, getting the right bedding experience with the various books. So we don't just send them on. It's not a one click through, and then you're gone, no, you come back to our sites on accident. We have a really strong community, same biggest insider road runners on the fantasy side that, that super loyal to our rents. And from our perspective, we are extremely good at making sure that these guys are engaged and activated with our books throughout. So it's definitely not just a one click and you're off a show from our side. Yeah,

Speaker 3: 17:12

For sure. And I think as the market matures as well, but that kind of retention piece and remarketing piece is also going to become important to operate there because it will lower their costs over time, uh, to kind of re target the same customers over and over again. And I know you, and I've spoken about that before in terms of how affiliates play a much bigger role now in marketing than what it did sort of 20 years ago, when we first started where it was all about acquisition. So I'm quite interested to see how, uh, affiliates such as yourselves are going to innovate in that market to actually build they communities around their brands. And I think that's, what's making the U S quite exciting, um, as a, as a channel to watch. So lastly, I wanted to kind of just round off the conversation about the U S with you today to just say, if I gave you a crystal ball, what would you say the future of affiliate marketing looks like for the gaming industry in general? And also as it pertains to the U S

Speaker 4: 18:06

I think to a certain extent, you're going to see the same pictures as in Europe, where you will have a lot of new entrants coming in, uh, in the next periods. And then gradually that will be rolled up and the acquisition strategy from the larger affiliates. That's, that's definitely how I see it. Uh, I think from our perspective, we are, we are really well positioned and, and, uh, have, if not the strongest branch, then, then at least the strongest portfolio and the U S and obviously we have excellent work. We, we also have the leading, uh, what are called sports spending brand in the U S so, so we are, we extremely well positioned in order to, to conquer not just the existing states and the growth of in these, but also, uh, any future states that come comes online. And it doesn't mean that there won't be space for other entrance. I think that the entire affiliate industry, and then Google in itself is so vastly big, that there will always be a niche where you can conquer the certain market shares as a new entrance, but we will see it mature. And we will see, uh, M and a being a part of the future for the industry in the U S

Speaker 3: 19:18

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's quite exciting to talk about, because I mean, I've seen, you know, uh, quite a few sites that I've sort of launched and within the, you know, two to three years have sold for quite a decent sum of money. So if you are an affiliate listening to this podcast and you are looking for your next big challenge, uh, you've heard it here. The us is looking like an attractive market for you to go and invest in as, as one of the emerging regions, but just understanding your marketing plan and your marketing strategy, your exit strategy is obviously important to think about before you begin. So it's been great to have you on the podcast, mark. Um, thank you so much for sharing your insights around the us and telling us a little bit more about what better collectivists seeing and doing over there. I think it's gonna make for great conversations, uh, for our next, uh, affiliate of veterinary when we get to meet in person again, which I'm sure everybody in our industry is desperate to do. Um, but we wish you all the very best with, um, you know, the acquisitions and the growth prospects that you guys are pushing out there in the U S and thank you very much for being on the podcast today.

Speaker 4: 20:17

Thank you, Leanne. It's been a pleasure and looking forward to meeting you,

Speaker 1: 20:21

And that's a wrap for this week's affiliate insider affiliate marketing podcast. If you're loving what we're putting down in this series, head on over to apple iTunes and give us a five-star rating and subscribe to our podcast channel. So you never miss another insightful episode tune in next week for more digital marketing insights and traffic driving tips, tricks, and strategies to keep your digital marketing fresh and your affiliate program driving consistent sales.